Killeen City Manager’s ‘Retirement’

On the night of Tuesday, March 24 – shortly before 9 p.m. – Killeen City Manager Kent Cagle sent an email to the Killeen mayor and City Council, announcing his "retirement." It came as a surprise to many who follow Killeen city politics. KDH News employees talk about Cagle's legacy in Killeen and the leadership gap Cagle's departure means for the city.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Hello, welcome to the Inside Kaleen Podcast from KDH News. My name is Jacob Brooks, today's host of Inside Kaleen, a podcast about news, events, and politics in the Kaleen Fort Hood area. And today we are talking about the retirement of Killeen City Manager Kent Cagle. With me today are longtime KDH News Opinion Editor Dave Miller. Hey Dave. How are you, Jacob? How are you? Good. And local government reporter Kevin Limity. Hey, Kevin. Hi. On the night of Tuesday, March 24th, shortly before 9 p.m., Kaleen City Manager sent an email to the Kaleen Mayor and City Council announcing he would be retiring. It was a very short email. I'll read it directly. Cagles said in the email. Now he said retirement and we heard all of course all day long that day, you know, Wednesday the day after we had heard, you know, the rumor was that he resigned. But do y'all think he is retiring or did he resign?

SPEAKER_00 1:41

This episode is sponsored by Ann Nails. Treat yourself. Enjoy$10 off jail nails with Ann Nails because you deserve it, located at 4110 South Clear Creek Road in Kleene, Texas. We'd also like to thank Guiding Light Concepts. Empowerment is at the heart of Women's History Month, and it's at the heart of our sponsor, Guiding Light Concepts. Just as we celebrate women who uplift our community, Guiding Light Concepts empowers Kaleen's children diagnosed with autism. Their expert team champions children with autism by providing highly individualized AVA therapy, behavior reduction, and IEP support. To help your child build independence and thrive, visit GuidingLight Concepts.com or call 254-432-7041 today. And our final sponsor, WDF Express. Relax. Let us do your laundry. At WDF Express, we understand that life is busy, but your laundry doesn't have to be. We offer free pickup and delivery as well as drop-off service. Conveniently located only one mile from the Clear Creek gate in Winfield Plaza. Quick, easy, stress-free.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

What do you think, Kevin?

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Well, I mean, in function, they're pretty much the same thing. And I don't really think the verbiage matters that that much. It's just dependent on like the context of what happened. And what happened was actually pretty, pretty wild of the that same night that they had the meeting.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

I mean Yeah, take us through that night because you were at City Hall. It was a regular council meeting that Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

I mean, like it wasn't really like a meeting where I expected anything crazy to happen. I had known that Kegel was going to get his evaluation that night, but I didn't really think that much of it because typically when they give these evaluations, especially when it's not a month where they're going to be giving a raise, you know, typically that only happens like once a year and at the end of the year. But in any case, what really like threw me off, and I think what really threw a lot of people off was two things that happened. The first thing that happened was that Michael Fornino, who is a very, very vivid figure in clean politics simply because he just speaks at virtually every meeting and is extremely critical of the clean council, he made a, I guess, sort of a veiled allegation that Kegel was no longer living in the clean residence, which caused Kegel to react like asking to bet money on the fact.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

During the council meeting in front of everyone.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

So I mean, which is, you know,$100,000 bet.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah, like it's not something typically a city administrator would do. Yeah. I mean, regardless of like what allegation it was. And then the other thing was that, and this is probably maybe less like related to Kegel, but I feel like it still has to do with him a bit. James Sills, who is a South Clean resident, actually lives in the Donut Hole, has been impacted by some of the traffic being diverted from stagecoach due to construction. He was very upset about, or at least he seemed very upset about some of those issues and him trying to get in touch with a city engineer and uh not having luck. And I kind of feel like it, in a way, it also kind of laid some blame on the city manager to some extent. And I thought that was significant because James Sills is a person who's known for being a lot more like calmer and more collected. And I asked him about it after the meeting. He said he was very frustrated. So when we found out later that Kegel resigned, like that was one of the things that two things that were brought to my head, in addition to obviously the evaluation, which we have no idea what happened during that.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

And this was a quarterly evaluation. So Kegel, you know, and for years now he's been getting these quarterly evaluations from the City Council. Yeah. Meaning once every three months, he uh the council meets in executive session, basically near the end of the meeting. They they go into their conference room, right? They leave, and uh they give him a quarterly evaluation. And then they do they also give him an annual evaluation that's typically in December, and that's where he we he he's gotten the raises. But this, you know, when we saw it on the agenda before the meeting, it really didn't raise any alarm bells. It just was this is normal, he gets a quarterly evaluation.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah, it's just something that always happens. And generally speaking, we don't even there's not really even too much to write about because like even if he gets his his evaluation, we usually don't know like what the results of it are. Um I believe one time we did do a uh FOI request for some of like the the remarks from the city council about what he got. But it but it's always been generally positive. The city council has always had very nice things to say about cable.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

So he resigned that night after the meeting, presumably after his quarterly evaluation, whatever happened there, and he sent the email at uh 8 50 p.m. You know, we we eventually learned. And I you know, the I got a call, I won't say from who, Wednesday morning, and we hadn't we had no word that this has happened, but Wednesday morning I got a call, and then I looked at you, you know, and I was repeating, okay, Kegel has resigned is what we were told. And so instantly you went into breaking news mode, Kevin, and started asking around.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah. So I mean I was like kind of veering towards being a little bit skeptical because the my initial thought was that he probably resigned because of that interaction he had with Fornino. That was my initial thought. Because, you know, he has gotten into trouble in the past for similar things. He he can have he has reacted strongly to residents. And Fornino in particular, I think he has reacted strongly too. So it wouldn't have been like that much of an overshoot, I think.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

And you started calling some council members, the mayor, they were kind of not getting back to you right away, or or at least said I think Councilwoman Gonzalez said she hadn't heard that yet or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Aaron Powell Yeah, she did say that, but she also got off the phone pretty quickly, I guess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

Right. Maybe she was checking it while you she was talking to you.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

It's possible. I don't know, but it's possible.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

And then eventually, after I think several times trying to get the city spokeswoman Tori Bethany to confirm it, eventually she did, like right about 5 p.m. on that Wednesday.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

I mean, I would like to think it's because I prompted it with an open records request that they kind of felt like they had to at that point.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Trevor Burrus, Jr. And the rec the request was for his resignation letter or yeah, it was for his resignation letter.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Although they said at the time that it was a retirement, not a resignation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

In fact, because what uh we were both asking her in uh at one point, and this was right about the same time, she would finally confirm it. But Bethany said, Mr. Kegel is retiring, he is not resigning, as you mentioned below. And you know, what's that to me there is a difference because if I say, hey, everybody, I'm retiring, you know, to me that means my my work life is done, I have worked for decades, I'm gonna go stay home, I might travel, maybe I'll take up painting. You know, I'm retiring. I'm not gonna be in the workforce anymore. And it sounds like I'm riding off into the sunset, I'm gonna have a nice life. Whether I but if I said, hey guys, I'm resigning, good luck, you know, that means I'm quitting, I might go get another job, I might do whatever I want to do, who knows? But I'm, you know, I'm I'm quitting versus retiring. And uh a lot of city officials for the past y few years at least, they they they use that word retiring, even though next month they might have a job with another city. They didn't retire. They just le they resigned and left. You know what I mean? So but it sounds better if you say I'm reti retiring. And we saw the same thing with Colleen assistant city manager Jeff Reynolds, right? A couple years ago. You were you you attended his retirement ceremony. And then uh a few months later he was back with the city.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah, I mean I think that was a little bit different, like circumstantially speaking, but like yes, yeah. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Yeah. And you know, you know, he might have had certain reasons for leaving the city at that time, but I but did he, you know, w w was his intent to retire and and and live, you know, the good life, you know, traveling and painting and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_02 11:54

You know, I don't think we don't have to have a lot of situations like that. I mean, if you don't re- remember, uh Chief Charles Kimball also retired. Right. And then when when we lost our last city manager, it's like, oh, they're gonna put him back on as assistant city manager for a while, and they had him on like a 12-week contract or something like that. And they had given him a big retirement party and everything, and here he was back. The same thing could be said for Glenn Morrison. I mean, he retired from the city at age 52 or whatever it was, back in I think 2016, something like that. And then now he's working for a home builder, a local home builder, has been since then very successfully. But you know, we get a lot of these people who say they're retiring from the city and then they move on and they do something else.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Now, Kimball, he didn't come back as a assistant seemed, but he did go to work for other police departments as like an interim interim police chief, like he was in I think Gerald for the Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

But I mean when he did come back, I mean he had been hired to a short-term contract because they needed as an entrance. After he had retired, but he doesn't really retire. And I think the the key, the the biggest example, it's not even City of Kleen, but when uh the city librarian for uh Harker Heights, Lisa Youngblood, retired last October after 29 years of working for the city, and she wasn't that old, and I'm thinking that's kind of young to retire. Six weeks later, she turns up at the Nolanville Smart Museum as their director. Yeah. And so, you know, it's like a lot of it, it's it's kind of wordplay. It's uh it's it's like you say, it has a different connotation to it. Yeah, sounds nice. When you say retirement, yeah, it doesn't sound like in your face I'm leaving. Yeah. It kind of sounds like I'm calling it, I'm calling it good, I'm calling it good, so I'm gonna step back and reassess.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

And that may be what he does. I mean, if I were to, if I were to guess, I I know he's he's worked in and in the municipal government for years, has like 39 years experience. Very well regarded, a lot of experience, a lot of municipalities and other entities are looking for that kind of experience. I wouldn't be surprised if six months from now he's down in the Austin area as a consultant or some other kind of work, you know, related to his expertise. So retiring, not so much. I I think that's a little bit of a reach, but he's about the appropriate age. I think when you see somebody of his age range saying they're retiring, it's easier to buy than somebody who's in their early 50s saying they're they're calling it good.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Yeah. And a lot of times we just, you know, we just hear that word retire. But but what they mean is, well, I'm retiring, you know, but they what they mean is I'm retiring from this job at the city of Kaleen, you know. But who knows what their deep desires are or what their future plans are. So he's calling it retirement. The city is calling it retirement. Uh we'll see what where Kegel pops up next if he does pop up. But he they clarified it's effective May 29th, so his last official day with the City of Kleene will be May 29th. Now, we're still trying to clarify when his last day in the office will be. Kevin asked that this morning to Tori Bethany. She kind of doubled down and said, Oh, it's May 29th. I already told you that, more or less. But I don't know if she quite grasped the question because a lot of times with city employees, they've built up all this vacation time, sick time, comp time that they get from who knows where. And, you know, they could, you know, the Army calls it terminal leave. You know, you can you have a end of service date, but you might have leave built up of a month or two months, and then you so you can get out and still get paid until so Kegel might he might leave, you know, next week and then still be getting paid through 29th because he has all this vacation. And we're trying to get the city to answer that. You know, when will his last stay in the office be? And so that remains remains to be seen.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Trevor Burrus, Jr. I think that's a big point. You know, people may say, well, it's just uh, you know, you're you're picking it. You're drawing, you know, you're you're trying to get too fine a point on it, you know, whether he retires now or whether he retires at the end of May. The big thing is, and I pointed this out in my editorial last week, we are right at the start of budget season. We are at, you know, the the point where all the departments are starting to finalize their requests. We're looking at the numbers, we're looking at the projections for sales tax, for property tax, all this sort of thing. This is all stuff that Kegel's office processed in in conjunction with his presentation of the preliminary budget, which usually comes out as it late of June, Kevin, usually early July.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

It's around there. I'm not sure exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Yeah, but I mean, if he's not there, it's gonna leave it up to his department heads and his assistant city managers to pull all this together. And if they're not that familiar with the process, or you know, if they have a little bit of question in exactly what the numbers should look like, it could be a little bit of a tough struggle for them. That's what I'm thinking. And so if he's here till the 29th, great. But if he's gone by May 1st, that could be a problem.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

Yeah. And and I want to read something. This was from the city's press release that Kegel was announced as a retirement. This came out Thursday, March 26th, so a day after we reported this news, the city, you know, did their press release. But they do have something in here. This the City of Clean operates under a council manager form of government, meaning they have a city manager that works for the city council, in which the city manager serves as the as the chief administrative officer overseeing daily operations and implementing the city council's policy direction. The city manager is responsible for the city's$339 million budget and approximately$1,348 municipal employees. So that$339 million budget. It is that's pretty big, right, Kevin? You've seen that. It's a very thick when it's printed, it's a very thick document, hundreds of pages long.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah, I don't think it's been printed lately, but.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Maybe not in recent years. They used to print it every year, but now it's all online. But still huge, hundreds of pages. How would you how would you rate Kegel Kegel's job on the budget?

SPEAKER_01 18:18

I mean, in my view, I think Kegel does a has done a very good job with the budget. He they start out with like projected deficits and and some way or another it ends up all being balanced when they when it's approved by the council. And I think that that's that's important. And yeah, I can't really fault Kegel for any of that. And honestly, that's his main job. I mean, regardless of all like the political stuff that like swirls about, like that's really his main job.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

So make sure the city is functioning. The city has money to pay police officers, pay fire departments, handle trash, streets, roads, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

I think his like approach to like trying to keep people employed at the city, like like by like you know focusing on retention and that sort of thing, I think that's probably a really good idea because I think either he or somebody else had mentioned that in the past the city had much lower retention rates. So I mean he he did do a lot of good stuff. Arguably.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

You want to pick up on that, Dave? What what did Kegel do well, you think?

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Well, I'll I I'd piggyback on what Kevin just said. I think he was a wizard when it came to making a tough budget work. And I think he did the best with the numbers he had available. And you know, let's talk about the other elephant in the room, which is the disabled veterans property tax exemption. Right. I think Kevin had it in a recent story that the city lost$15 million last year to that. To be fair about it, most people will tell you it's a well-earned and well-earned, a well-done exemption. Veterans earned it, they should get it. The city has nothing against that. They don't have uh any ill will towards the veterans receiving it. But the problem is the state has dropped the ball. I mean, this last legislative session alone, they had a bill in place that was going to dra vastly increase the amount of money in the pool for the cities of reimbursement, for the cities receiving it. And up until this last session, uh Harker Heights and Nolanville were not eligible to receive any of the compensation because they didn't physically touch the military installation of Fort's way it was in the original bill. You had to be physically adjacent to and Colleen was uh Nolanville and Harker Heights were not. Nolanville lost like four million dollars last year. I mean, Harker Heights lost four or five million dollars. Nolanville lost a million, and they only have like a$17 million budget. So that's a huge chunk off the top. So anyway, because of Hillary Hicklin, Representative Hillary Hickman of Belton, they got a budget bill passed in the House that increased eligibility, and it also included a really large increase in the pool of money that would go to the recipients. Well, when it hit the Senate, they didn't buy it. They they let the eligibility increase, but they left the pool the same size. So we've got more hands reaching in to get the same pie. And Kegel, you know, like it or not, he went down to Austin and he lobbied against that bill that was going to go through that had more eligibility but the same amount of money because he saw what it was gonna do to Colleen. And as a result, Colleen is scheduled to receive less than a million dollars and they're gonna lose 15 million. Well, if you have that coming off the top of your property tax every year, and it's gonna get worse. Yeah. Because eligibility is going to increase. Veteran spouses are eligible. People become their their disability rating goes up, you know, so now they're eligible for the reduction or the exemption rather. So he saw this and he knew that this was going to be a huge impediment to getting a balanced budget every year. And, you know, he fought that. And you know, any future city manager that the city clean looks at is going to have that in their in their sights. They're gonna say, okay, I've got to do a budget, but I've got this facing at facing me. That's gonna be an issue. We can talk about that later. But I think I think uh he did a good job overall with the budget. He found ways to make money. I think he kind of misread the room on a few things. One would be the when he zeroed out the arts funding back and right after COVID. Yeah. We didn't get anything in the way of hotel-motel tax because you know, hotels weren't being booked. Yeah. So that was 2020. Right. And so the next year, when it came time for the budget, uh, he just zeroed out the arts funding. Well, you know, that was a cause and effect that could have been expected given what he had for a job. You know, I gotta make everything balance. But he didn't tell anybody. So we had these arts groups like Viva Arts and all these others that are expecting money to balance their budgets. Yeah. They showed up at City Hall, and it was up to the city council to find money for them, even though it wasn't as much as they would have gotten.

SPEAKER_04 23:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

You know, he came up with the sale of the surplus water, and I got you got air quotes around that for everybody who can't see it, surplus water to Georgetown. And it was water the city wasn't using. They're they're eligible for it. They have, you know, they the BRA gives them a water rights to it. Right. And they weren't using it. So we thought, well, we can make some money on this. And they I I can't remember. Kevin, was it a five-year contract that was renewable for another five years?

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Uh that sounds about right, but I'm not a hundred percent sure.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

I can't remember it's five-year tenure. But anyway, the council balked at that, because here we are, you know, everybody's talking about water and drought and how much of a problem it is. Or Central Texas Water Alliance is working to give the area more much more water, and here we are, just you know, selling some of it literally down the river to Georgetown.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

And I think another thing, and this had nothing to do with the budget, but I think it was a communication issue which which was plaguing him throughout his tenure in Killeen, a lack of communication with the city council.

SPEAKER_04 24:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Uh whether it was about, you know, the the arts funding, which they didn't know, they were broadsided about the arts funding not happening. The surplus was just a little PowerPoint he did that was just an agenda item, and nobody I don't think anybody knew what that really was either. But I think the biggest thing was when Mayor Pro Tem Ken Wilkerson resigned. And he resigned in a note to Kegel. I I think it was an email or something like that. It might have been on a Monday morning, I think you were saying that, Jacob. But the next night, city council, everybody's wondering where he is. And the mayor, Debbie Ash King, she asked him, said Mr. City Manager, where where is Mr. Wilkerson? He said, Oh, he resigned. Well, you know, as a city manager as the top administrator in the city, you have an obligation to inform the city council of anything that affects them directly. And that's a huge impact. Your pro your city, your mayor pro town is just walked out. And you're short of council members. So you know, I think there's stuff that he did on his own that maybe ruffled some feathers. I think ultimately he thinks he did what was best for the city. I I have no doubts that he did everything he thought would help the city be in a better position, be best for the residents, improve the city's standing, and and you know, I think he worked hard toward that end. But you know, there's there's always something that you that you can find, uh, you know, a chink in the armor.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Yes. Now, so Kagel, great with numbers, not great with communication. And Kevin, you've had your own battles with communicating with with Kegel over the years. Now, is that what you wrote about in in your column this past Sunday?

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Yeah, I think my column was basically trying to make the point that he was a great city manager, but like an awful political figure in the city, kind of kind of thing. Because like like like like we already discussed, his the stuff he did with the budget and the finances were great. But he just did not seem to really understand the politics behind some of like what the city council did and some of what the city did. And or either he didn't understand it or maybe he wasn't interested in it. I'm not really sure what. And he and after a while, he wasn't really so interested in talking to me either, which I mean, I guess I can understand why people might not want to talk to me. I I mean, my whole job is to like find out information and publish it. But like, I mean, like, you know, it it it was also kind of like showing like sort of like the deterioration like of our relationship and like how that made me view like sources and like journalism and my role and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

And you you got here in 2023 and early on things were okay, maybe up and down. He would you could call his cell phone, he would answer, give you a quote or statement or what. But then can you just talk about that, how how things maybe started out with Kegel and communication and then kind of went downhill?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

I mean, I think that things started out okay with me and Kegel because at the time, like his interests sort of aligned with like what we were reporting. I think that the first thing we talked about was some of like the issues with the development fees, because at the time Kegel was trying to raise the development fees, and the the developers and the builders were really upset about that, and they came out in force and they protested and stuff like that. So, you know, I actually went down to City Hall to interview him, and and so and he gave a he gave a good interview, and I think that probably upon seeing like me write about that issue and giving him like a fair shot that like you know that it kind of it kind of began to build like somewhat of a what do you call it, like trust? Yeah, some kind of like a give and take or whatever. But unfortunately, because I'm a journalist, I am not always gonna be able to make people happy. And so like so eventually I had to start doing articles that were a little bit more like I wouldn't say critical, but but showed a little bit more of like the less savory aspects of of some of the things. And like, and I mentioned this in the com. One of the things that I would got calls over was like this this kind of like a little bit like nutty like theory that people had that Kegel and and the incoming city manager assistant city manager at the time, Lori Wilson, like worked in Carrollton at the same time. In actuality, they were like, I think like decades apart from when they actually worked together. So there was nothing in the world true about that. But but anyways, like I called Kegel to kind of ask about that, but he got very upset with me for just asking. And unfortunately, I think I think the problem is that it's a little bit of like a misunderstanding of what our role is. We're like, I mean, we're not like out to get people. Like, in fact, you could argue that we were actually helping Kegel by writing this article because it helped to put the rest of rumors that wasn't true. But he didn't see it that way, I guess. And you know, so I guess that was like kind of the start of like things going downhill. But you know, there were ebbs and flows throughout my entire career here so far. So who knows? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

And eventually Kegel more or less just shut down.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Yeah, eventually he just would stop talking to me.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

And I think was the cyberattack last year. The city had a cyberattack last year. Was that the nail in the coffin?

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Aaron Powell I don't know. I mean, I think that a lot of people in the city were very upset with the way we covered the ransomware attack. And I kind of can understand why a little bit, because it's not a comfortable like thing to have to explain away. And also there's a lot of legal issues with like getting hacked and stuff that people didn't want to really touch. And and we were very, very, very persistent about it. So I could kind of understand why people were upset, but I got a job to do.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

So you know, I mean, we wanted to, and you worked very hard coming to find out now like how deep that cyberattack went. Like, there's no doubt Colleen got hacked. They they got they shut down the time the time clocks or something like that. Yeah, they weren't working.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Time clocks weren't working. Utility collections was down for a bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

They couldn't send emails or something. Yeah, yeah. That was our first clue. And then you know, so it it was a pretty serious uh hack. There was a ransom note, unclear if the city ever paid anything. They said they didn't. But we had a lot of questions. And they answered a few, but then eventually we kept sending more questions and more questions, and then they they finally just said, get out of here, we're not gonna answer anything else. And that was a Kegel decision.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

You know. And so yeah. And I and um I think in a way the cyber attack was kind of you know, maybe at a turning point where he just never really came back, you know, to his smile. You know, we have a photo of Kegel smiling here, but that was probably the only time you saw him smile.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

One of the very rare times.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

And you know, not just the cyber attack, but also the I think that what really, really kind of kind of ruined it for me was like when we did the article about Bill Alishar, who's a prominent Austin attorney, like saying, telling me that basically the way the city council meetings are structured is violating the Open Meetings Act, and they did not want to hear that.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

So be clear about that, Kevin, from people who are thinking, well, that's just a kind of a vague allegation, it's because of the way they have the citizens' comments structured. They have the in between the workshop session and the regular session. So what people are unable to make any comments about something before a topic is considered. And that's the way the open meeting law reads that you have to give them an opportunity to speak before an agenda item is considered. Well, it's considered in the workshop. In fact, a lot of times their decision is basically made in the workshop and then it's rubber stamped in the regular meetings. You know, Mr. Cagle would argue that it's better to have it in the middle because people who are willing to speak they get more of a background on the item before they go up to the microphone, they introduced, they have they hear the back and forth, they kind of hear how what the situation is. So maybe they're more informed when they go to the microphone in the middle. But there's a there's a downside, too, is if they want to go up there and make an allegation or an assertion about the item that's being discussed, and that pretty much gets discounted early in the discussion during workshop. Well, then what are they? They're that's already been dismissed in workshop within their discussion, so now they bring it up again. They sound like they're just going around the same tree.

SPEAKER_04 33:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Well, you know, it's it works both ways. And the other part of it is people who want to make workshop comment or comments in the in the meeting have to wade through the whole workshop before they can, you know, who long knows how long that'll take? It could be 12, 15 items. They could show up at three o'clock for the meeting and not be able to speak till five. And you know, that's part of the open meetings act thing, too. So I think Elshire had a point, and I think Kegel was overreacting when he said, you know, that that he didn't know what he was talking about, or it was they've checked it out with their legal department. I think that was what they said, Kevin, they checked it out and everything's fine.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

I don't know. I uh they they were you using like different ways to justify it. Like they were saying saying that like deliberation only occurs like after the workshop meeting, which really doesn't make any sense if you think about it, because even like it even during regular workshop meetings, they'll be asking questions, they'll be like, you know, talking. So it that doesn't really make that much sense.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

It's kind of like Supreme Court arguments. You can kind of tell which way the council is drifting before they've had before they have the final vote.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

My theory is that they designed the city council the way they did in order to like lessen the impact of the citizen comments, which like have been driving people. I and when I say people, I mean virtually everybody crazy because of like how like divisive and like sometimes like control they are. But like But still, even if the comments are divisive and out of control, that doesn't justify violating laws designed to like for open government.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

Yeah. Dave, your editorial that ran this past Sunday, March 29th, the headline was City Manager's Retirement puts Kaleen in a very difficult situation. The first sentence here the city of Kaleen suddenly finds itself in the market for a city manager. Dave, kind of take us through what a little bit about what you wrote here, but also what what are the what are the next steps for Kaleen here?

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Right. Well I think part of that is the the the city is going to be taking the first steps of that in this coming week. They've already got it on their agenda to discuss appointing an interim city manager. Uh that's most likely going to be either Jeffrey Reynolds or Laurie Wilson. Right. And so those are the two assistancy managers they have right now. One of those two are likely to get the spot on the interim basis. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

And that should be decided this coming Tuesday. It's on the agenda, I think, as I think as a executive.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

No, that's that's an open session. Uh it is but the No, you're right. That is an executive session uh item. The one that they're gonna be discussing in open session is going to be the process for selecting a new city member. Right. You know, how they're gonna go about advertising it, what the timeline is gonna be, uh what what the what they're looking for, that sort of thing. So those are the two big steps they're gonna have to take next. And and the thing that I already mentioned earlier, one of the problems with the Higgle retirement at this point is the time of the year. If he had done this like in November or something, it would be like, okay. But uh, after the budget's done, you know, he's coming in here and he's leaving, and and the those two neither one of those two assistant city managers has any experience as a full-time uh city manager. So they may be pressed. Hopefully they can deal with the department heads individually and the finance director and and pull something together. A lot of this stuff is kind of in pro probably in a computer program. Well, you know, it's not like something you have to pull up, you know, just start go to the drawing board and start making notes with your pencil.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

So I'm sure a lot of it's adjustment. But the thing is, they're gonna be without a city manager, I would guess, a minimum of three months. Right. And that, you know, at a critical time. And also, you know, you have fee schedules that have to be updated. You have all sorts of stuff that happens during the summertime. And they have to have a budget passed by September 30th. So that's a critical time to be without a city manager, and uh especially one with as much experience as Kegel has.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

Yeah. Probably the best bet in if Kegel can get at least a draft of the budget ready before he leaves, you know, that first draft, which is probably the most difficult thing to do, and it's hopefully a balanced draft. And then he can hand that off to the interim. The interim makes adjustments to get it, get it through. And then whenever they hire the new city manager, new city manager shows up maybe in November or something like that, towards the end of the year, or maybe September. And then they kind of start with the new fiscal year. And it's, you know. And typically the way it goes, I think, is you know, the city is going to hire a firm that will do less nationwide search. And there are certain firms that are good about that. They did the same thing with the police chief. They hired a firm to okay, do a nationwide search, you do the initial interviews, handle the resumes, and then give us, you know, the finalists. And then the you know and then the city council will interview the finalists. Maybe they'll meet the townsfolk, you know, and then there'll be uh a vote, you know, to name, you know, on the finalist, and then there's a contract that has to be worked out. So it's a it's a very it's month it's a months-long process, and you know, you can't just find a city manager that's worth his or her salt out on the street, you know.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

The other thing is, well, you know, here's here's the other thing. And there's gonna be some people say that they should look internally. I don't think that's probably a good option just because Clean is a pretty complicated city, and being a military community also it's you know, there's a lot going on. Yeah. Maybe maybe somebody even with a lot more experience might not be able to handle just because of the unique aspect of the military federal funding that's very transient. But the other thing is, do we want to go, and I said this in the editor, do we want to go for somebody younger maybe who's not close to retirement age? The last two city uh managers we've had have been either at or close to retirement age. And do you want to go with somebody younger who may be a little more forward-thinking, more identify with the average age of the community? Yeah. But or, you know, there's the other option, somebody who's not entirely, their entire background isn't city government. They have other things that they did too, and then and also has uh, you know, just somebody who's a finance person or somebody who's you know doing done other business things that the city could identify with and maybe benefit from. So there's all sorts of options, but I think it's gonna come down to the the search firm. Uh it's going to come down with what kind of things the city can offer as far as uh a contract. It's it's a difficult job to handle because you know we've got flat sales tax, we have property tax that's impacted by the veterans' exemption. You know, we've got a lot of infrastructure growth and not enough money to do it. And uh, you know, a lot of cities are in the same boat. And then you put on top of that, Texas, you know, they the legislature has put a cap on how much you can increase your your uh property tax revenue every year, you know, and and the appraisals and that. So, you know, and uh we've also put a limit on how you can uh annex property. It has to everything's voluntary annexation now. You can't just take something over. Yeah, so all these little limitations have been put on cities, and Kaleen has its own set of limitations.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

So who's gonna come in and get that job? Who's gonna say, I can lead the city, I want to do it? That's a that's a you know, it's a good question, right?

SPEAKER_03 41:31

It's a complex, you know, thing to just walk into running Kaleen. Kevin, any any thoughts on uh how the city council should, you know, proceed with hiring a new city manager.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

I mean, the only thought I really have, because like I said, I thought Kegel did very good with the budget, but not so good at other things. I just hope that whoever they hire next is going to be like way better at facilitating a culture that communicates with the media, us in particular, because like in the past we have not had very good luck with that. Yeah. I think it's unfortunate too. I think it's so unnecessary, too. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

And and maybe not just us, but just communicate with people in general. Like the Donut Hole residents, they show up at meetings regularly and they're always upset. And they always have the same and it's the same thing. Y'all don't listen to us, we've been trying for years, you don't listen to us, you know, hear us now, they get angry, they get upset, and it's a it's rinse and repeat, you know. So, you know, is there a city manager that can kind of bridge the gap and at least, you know, listen to people and and you know, talk to people, you know? Kegel's invited on this show. I'll invite him right now. Mr. Kagel, if you're listening, please come on to the next podcast. We'd love to hear your story and why you're retiring. You know, that's another question. We don't know really why he's retiring. He said, Well, I'm retiring. Thanks for the six and a half years. But it's n he's he's not said why now? I mean, all of a sudden after his the night on the eve of his quarterly review right after, you know, and he took a beating during that meeting, placed a$100,000 bet that he still lives in Kaleen. What kind of you know, it's a show. It's almost comical.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Uh yeah, it was it was I did not expect him to go out like that. Yeah. I mean, it's and I think eventually we're gonna learn what actually happened one way or the other. It just might take some time, you know.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

I mean, did he just get his feelings hurt and like oh I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

I think there's a I think Kevin mentioned this earlier, and it's a possibility, and again, we're just speculating here, but you know There's a possibility that uh when he went back into his executive session for his review, if you'll remember, Mr. Fernino said that he did he didn't actually say this was happening. He heard it from a good source, he said an official, and he said that all I'm asking is that you investigate this. Right. This is your job. You investigate this. Yes. And if if it if when they got into executive session, one of the council members said, I think we need to follow up on what Mr. Fernino said and investigate and find out if you do indeed live in clean, he might have just sat there for the rest of his review, you know, closed mouth, listened to what they had to say, walked out two hours later, talked to his wife, said, What do you think? Yeah, I'm ready. It's quite possible. I mean, yeah. That's just a that's a total made-up speculation. They're coming after me. I better go. I'm coming up with a scenario that would make sense for the timing of this whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

And if somebody did say, after six and a half years, we're doubting you that you live in Queen, I could see him being insulted enough to where that might trigger.

SPEAKER_03 45:00

Yeah. Trust has eroded, and you know, yeah. You know? It's hard to say. All right, guys. Anything else you all want to say about this uh topic?

SPEAKER_02 45:14

I think I I think we all in the city, I think we all we all owe Mr. Kegel a debt of thanks. He's done a good job in a difficult position, sometimes working with difficult people. Right. And uh I think we owe him a debt of thanks and wish him well wherever he goes.

SPEAKER_03 45:31

Yeah, great numbers guy. You know, I would trust him with the budget of my household, maybe. But but you know, I think he's he's uh he he certainly left his mark uh you know on Kaleen. He got some things done, didn't get everything he wanted to done, but he certainly left left a mark and you know under his leadership, Colleen continued to grow. They really paid a lot of attention to roads, you know. There's re road reconstruction projects almost everywhere you look now. Still not enough, according to some, but Bunny Trail is, you know, done. They're getting done on Watercrest, they're getting done on stagecoach. So, you know, you know that that that's improvement there. And so, you know, we wish Mr. Kegel the best in his retirement, and we'll be looking to work with whoever the next city manager is. And if that's whoever that is, if you know, we'd like you on this podcast too after you're hired, you know, please come on. All right. Well, I do want to pause now for uh a quick word from our sponsors.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

This episode is sponsored by Ann Nails. Treat yourself. Enjoy ten dollars off jail nails with and nails because you deserve it, located at 4110 South Clear Creek Road in Kleen, Texas. We'd also like to thank Guiding Light Concepts. Empowerment is at the heart of Women's History Month, and it's at the heart of our sponsor, Guiding Light Concepts. Just as we celebrate women who uplift our community, guiding light concepts empowers Kleen's children diagnosed with autism. Their expert team champions children with autism by providing highly individualized ABA therapy, behavior reduction, and IEP support. To help your child build independence and thrive, visit GuidingLightConcepts.com or call 254-432-7041 today. And our final sponsor, WDF Express. Relax, let us to your laundry. At WDF Express, we understand that life is busy, but your laundry doesn't have to be. We offer free pickup and delivery as well as drop-off service, conveniently located only one mile from the Clear Creek Gate in Winfield Plaza. Quick, easy, stress-free. Mention KDH and receive$10 off your wash and fold service. Fast, affordable, and reliable here at WDF Express.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Thank you for listening, everyone. Inside Kaleen Podcast is brought to you by KDH News, produced by Hamida Botchway. KDH News will continue to cover the final weeks of Kent Cagle and Colleen. And you can read Kevin's articles and Dave's editorials at KDHnews.com. Goodbye, everybody.